Ascot TT Story - The Making Of A Very Special Motorcycle

Part 6

The story so far is that my Ascot  build at Jack Lilley's is practically complete. I struggle to decide which tank badge best suits the Ascot, change the levers to black adjustable ones and get a dust cover. I'm warned on the dangers of running a bike without an air filter, so have the air filter element put back in (the K&N one seems difficult to get at present.) In Hong Kong I find a Dynojet set up that will be useful later for tuning. 

Tank Badges and Pads

A-Fri 30-03-2001 1:17

Having seen all three Ascots together, I'm wondering about the T-bird gate tank badge. Is it too heavy for the bike? The Ascot with the chrome standard mirrors has a Triumph badge that is plain, but goes well with the lines of the bike. What do you think? Should I change or is it too late because of the glue on the tank?

Are you going to put on my 3 tank pads?

S-Fri 30-03-2001 1:29

Thought I'd let you have a look at one we have just built so that you could see the tank badges.

A-Fri 30-03-2001 2:07

Yes, the plain badge suits the bike better. Please change back if you can do so without damaging the paintwork of the tank. If it's a problem, I guess I could live with it. 

S-Fri 30-03-2001 21:24

The badges are screw on, I've give Joe the badges and he will have a look and see if it is OK.

Err, Joe hates putting pads on and was going to get you to place them where you wanted them.

A-Sat 31-03-2001 1:58

Still wondering which is the right tank badge. Perhaps I'll have both sets and the special removal tool, then I can swap around to decide. Difficult to make up my mind from the photos.

A-Sat 26-05-2001 17:17

Before I forget, can you include the tank badge special screw removal tool in the "box". Thanks.

Levers

A-Fri 30-03-2001 1:17

What about black levers for clutch and brake from Triumph, adjustable if possible?

S-Fri 30-03-2001 21:24

Done that!

Dust Cover

A-Fri 30-03-2001 8:20

Can you show me a photo of the standard Triumph dust cover hung over the bike. I'd like to get one, but only if it is a good fit. Somebody in a list was complaining that it is too short for a classic when it's on the centre-stand.

S-Sat 31-03-2001 0:59

We ran out of them this week and are on order with the factory. I will try to remember next week.

A-Tue 10-04-2001 20:34

Did you get the dust covers in yet? Do they cover the Ascot nicely?

S-Tue 10-04-2001 23:34

Attached. It seems to fit where it touches.

A-Fri 13-04-2001 11:31

Dust cover looks OK in the pictures. Please include one for me with the Ascot.

S-Sat 14-04-2001 17:34

OK, will put one in the "box" for you, thanks.

A-Sun 15-04-2001 8:43

Thanks for the dust cover.

Spark Plugs

A-Tue 10-04-2001 20:34

Spark plugs. With the uprated engine, have you changed the plugs? What do you recommend?

S-Tue 10-04-2001 23:34

DPR8EA-9

A-Fri 13-04-2001 11:31

NGK website mentions these specials for high performing bikes:

DPR8EVX-9

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/motorcycles/vx_platinum.asp

Would you recommend them for the Ascot? If yes, then please fit.

NGK VX Platinum Spark Plugs

VX Platinum Spark Plugs are an extension of the successful Fine Wire Spark Plug line, and are made with the same superior manufacturing quality NGK has maintained for years.

A basic property of electricity is that it is easier to push a current through a thin wire (which offers less resistance) than a thick wire. Therefore NGK has reduced the VX Platinum Plug's centre electrode diameter to .8 mm, allowing your ignition system to operate at its maximum efficiency. The higher durability of platinum allows the use of a thinner centre electrode, while maintaining a long service life.

VX Platinum Spark Plugs are the plugs of choice for many racing and performance-minded enthusiasts, and will work great in virtually all applications. The VX Platinum Spark Plug is engineered with a tapered ground electrode for better heat transfer and improved ignitability.

  • .8 mm Platinum Center Electrode

  • Tapered Ground Electrode

  • Reduction in Required Voltage Increases Ignition System Efficiency

  • Better Spark and Excellent Ignitability

NGK Spark Plugs

S-Sat 14-04-2001 17:37

Should be no need. I have our Ascot booked for a Dyno run on the 24th April so it will be interesting to see what we learn from that. If there is a need to swap plugs we will do so. The only thing I have found with these type of harder plugs is that they are more inclined to foul in traffic, since that is where you will be most of the time, it would probably not be a good idea.

A-Sun 15-04-2001 8:43

Won't bother with the spark plugs then.

Flat Slide Carburettors

A-Fri 30-03-2001 20:40

Who makes the flat slide carbs and is there any model / edition for them?

S-Fri 30-03-2001 21:35

The carbs are Keihin FCR39's.

S-Sat 31-03-2001 0:59

The attachments are of the flat slides fitted into the standard airbox. We have removed the filter from the box and altered it to be able to get the bell mouths in, also used the still air box which keeps the intake noise down a bit. I'm quite happy with the end result and gives the bike a standard look, as standard as an Ascot is. I want to try to get down to our dyno chaps soon and see what sort of figures we are looking at. Bearing in mind that our one is standard internally.

A-Sat 31-03-2001 1:58

Have you got the K&N filters inside that box, then?

Hmm. Never seen or noticed that kind of carbs before. Took a bit of getting used to visually.

I DON'T LIKE THE HIDEOUS BLUE COLOUR OF THE BELL MOUTHS. Red - matching the Ascot logo red - would have been better, or even black. Is there any choice? If you painted them, would the paint last with the engine heat?

S-Tue 03-04-2001 22:50

We did our one in a rush, they will probably be OK sprayed with satin black and then will blend in nicely.

A-Sat 31-03-2001 8:15

Looking closely at your pictures of the carbs again, I noticed a hose going from something (breather?) on top of the cam cover on the left side back to the carbs. Is that something extra that goes with the flat slides?

S-Mon 02-04-2001 20:48

Yes, when the airbox is taken off there has to be a filter put on, which is what you were looking at.

A-Mon 02-04-2001 22:42

Now I'm confused. Do you mean that with the flat slides, you don't event need the K&Ns? The stock airbox just becomes an ornament on which to hand the side panels?

S-Tue 03-04-2001 0:16

When we fitted the airbox and the flatslides we took the box apart and took the filter out. Used the auxiliary box to give a still air capacity and the ram tubes just fit into the empty box. Sounds strange but it all works rather well. So the side panels fit onto the airbox which just has air in it. The small filter fitted to the cam cover is the engine breather which does not want to be in the airbox unfiltered and looks rather good where it is situated.

A-Tue 03-04-2001 21:28

Thanks for that. I understand now.

Dynojet in Hong Kong

A-Tue 03-04-2001 21:04

Had one of those experiences today that is quite rare, at least in HK. Having looked at www.dynojet.com I saw they have a HK rep. - Neon Action, in Chai Wan. I knew of the place as a race bike tune shop, but had never used it. Went in this morning and the place was very clean and spacious. The mechanics were thorough and orderly and using high quality tools. They were cleaning everything they touched. Not dissimilar to the photos you sent me of your workshop. Nonetheless, rare in HK.

The guy who runs the shop is called Lawrence Ho and has superb English. I got chatting to him and turns out he was once a medical instruments technician (operating theatre equipment etc.) but followed his instincts and became a bike tuner with a full Dynojet set up. That was 8 years ago. 

Since Lawrence Ho is on HK island and more convenient for me than out at Sai Kung, I'm thinking of using him to receive and prepare the Ascot. I feel this will be much safer if I have to get the carbs and exhausts fitted here.

Fitting Flat Slide Carburettors

We talk about the fitting of flat slide carburettors.

S-Mon 09-04-2001 18:55

I spoke to Joe this morning and he will fit the carbs on using the airbox. He will paint the tubes for you in a heat proof satin black, and leave the silencers off for Sea Island to fit

A-Tue 10-04-2001 20:34

Very pleased with the look of the trumpets in black, and with the way the carbs fit relatively inconspicuously into the airbox.

Steve sent me two pictures showing close-ups of the flat slides installed.

S-Thu 19-04-2001 16:09

Two Pictures

A-Wed 02-05-2001 9:07

Thanks for those.

You did say you would be shipping out the K&N filters AND the original carbs, just in case we need to put them back or have any problems with the FCRs.

One of your mechanics / technicians had doubts about doing the jetting of the FCRs before sending out to HK because of our different humidity. Personally, I think setting it up best you can for UK, based on your one with the 3:3 pipes, will be OK. It would be better than starting from scratch here, yes or no?

S-Wed 02-05-2001 16:47

Yes (on shipping out the K&N filters AND the original carbs).

We have the 150 main jets on order and will fit them along with dropping the needles and drilling the extra holes in the airbox. This will then give your "man" a decent starting point.

A-Thu 03-05-2001 18:09

Thanks for your quick reply as ever.

Wow, that's some size main jet, compared to standard, but of course it's not a "standard" bike, is it!! No wonder you are going to drill some holes in the airbox, to get sufficient air in, otherwise it would be too rich or only good at the top end? Are you going to do anything with the idle speed or with the main needle. I've heard of people opening the idle speed further and raising the main needle for increased power in the lower band. I'm no expert on carbs but guess Joe and your guy with the jazzed up T-bird know their stuff.

Air Filters, Yes or No

A-Mon 07-05-2001 9:35

I suspect fortuitously, the Legend Club in Yahoo has been having a discussion about air filters and whether or not to use them.

I wrote:

"I'm particularly interested in this thread at the moment as I'm having the Ascot set up without an air filter. It has flat slide carbs with the bell mouths going into the plastic casing that previously contained the air filter element. The element has been removed and extra holes put into the side of the airbox to increase air flow.

"I was reluctant to just have K&Ns flapping around on the end of the flat slides, because as I think someone has said in this or another club, the Triumph carb rubbers are pretty flimsy. I'm not sure they could stand the weight of the carbs and the K&Ns without some kind of support.

"Also, I like the look of the Ascot side panels on the airbox. I might see if I can do some adaptation that would allow the K&Ns to sit inside the airbox, but I suspect they are too big. If worst comes to worst, I'll revert to using the K&Ns. Hong Kong air can be dusty (understatement). What's the worst you could do to an engine by not having an air filter? Drag strips are pretty dusty and you don't see any there!"

To which I got the following replies:

(1) "I was at my dealer yesterday waxing philosophically re: carb jetting, and the parts guy indicated that he did indeed have K&Ns that would fit in the stock Legend airbox."

(2) "I would strongly recommend using an air filter. It only takes one small piece of grit to score your cylinder wall and if you get one, you're likely to get a hundred. Bigger chunks can ding your head, cause hotspots and blow the head gasket

"I ran a road racing car for a few years without an air filter and even in that limited, controlled environment I could see the damage at rebuild time. When I spun off once onto the dirt, the damage to the engine was enough to show a drop in compression.

"Run an air filter. It's the cheapest engine insurance you can buy."

So, can we and should we put the K&Ns inside the airbox?

And more replies, which I passed onto Steve:

A-Tue 08-05-2001 12:38

Looking at these, I guess we better fit the K&Ns!

What's the worst you could do to an engine by not having an air filter? Drag strips are pretty dusty and you don't see any there!

(1) "Dragster engines, like any other engine that is raced, get rebuilt with great frequency. FWIW I would never run a bike without an air filter."

(2) "A wise move [fitting the K&Ns], Alec. It would be a real downer to spend all that dosh on a trick engine & have it blow prematurely."

Suggestion Time!

S-Wed 09-05-2001 0:19

Suggestion time! To get the bike past your system I propose that we leave the set up as is, I'll include the K&N's in the box of bits for you to have fitted, probably get a tad more power with them.

A-Wed 09-05-2001 1:10

I don't have a problem with that, but I was just looking for confirmation from you that they will, in fact, fit inside the box. And, if they do, then it would be preferable if you were to put them in as for me to pay Mr Wong to do it.

Getting it tuned perfectly, with the 3 into 3 Mecatwin exhaust fitted and the right set-up for the flat slides, including which air filter arrangement to use are going to be challenges to look forward to!

S-Fri 11-05-2001 0:57

A quick update. We have put the extra holes in the airbox and put a grill inside the box to cover the holes. Joe has made a nice job of that. We also put the original air filter back in. There are no K&N filters in the UK for it. The carbs have 150 main jets fitted and the needles raised, I think we may be a tad rich with the filter, but I cannot tell it will have to have the open pipes on first and then run around for a bit to let it all settle down.

The 145 jets will be sent with the other parts.

The large K&N filters will come with the bike so you may want to try them at some point. It will mean losing the airbox covers. but there is no reason why a bracket could not be made to just hold them in position.

Continue ....

Best experienced with
Microsoft Internet Explorer
Click here to start

No. of hits since 08 April 2001

FastCounter by bCentral
This page last modified: 09 October 2007
© 2001 THE ROAD™ Counselling and Personal Development
THE ROAD™ is a trademark of Alec Gore.
(Hong Kong Business Registration Cert. No. 20188034)

Created and Maintained with
Microsoft FrontPage